Grace: Welcome to Episode #5, Alexander part 1. I’m kind of excited for today. It’s a lot of information, but it ties more things together. And you know, before we begin, if you don’t mind, we had an email asking how Kathryn and I met. And I actually think there’s a lot of relevance there. So, I’m thinking, let’s, let’s just start there. And I’ll add a little another little bit to Grace’s life.

So, with your permission and the listener’s permission, I would like to share some of the background of my life that is sort of fills in the gap in between having died and meeting someone that could help me with what was going on. I had a situation where I was not doing well at all.

After having the death experience, and we have the child of God, and I’m probably, this has been about 10 years, I’m feeling really lost and fragmented spiritually. And I was kind of, I didn’t know it at the time, but I was resourcing help, because I was saying, I really need, I really need help here. And religion wasn’t working for me, going to different churches, that’s not working for me.

And I really sort of started actually asking for divine intervention of sorts. I just didn’t know what it was. I just didn’t know that much how to do it. But one day, I turned on the television for no reason. I turned it on. And that was a talk show. And a wonderful woman named Hazel was on the talk show.

And I stopped and I looked, and I sat down, I started listening to her, she was talking about past life regression. Something I knew nothing about. But she said two words that caused me to sort of change my life.

She said, you need spiritual therapy.

And I was like, what?

It was like the world stopped around me. And I couldn’t hear any other words, but her words. And I realized, that’s what I need. I need spiritual therapy. I need a ton of spiritual therapy, actually. As soon as she got off the TV, I went home, and I called the television station. And I asked what her phone number was, if they could give me that information, which they could not.

But they told me her whole name, and the city that she was from. At that time, there was still 411, there was no social media or anything like that. And I called and they gave me her phone number. And I paced around my house like the whole day, like, trying to get up the nerve to call her because in my life at that time, I’m not talking about spirituality.

Okay, I’m not telling my husband, I’m not telling any of my friends, because people are starting to think I sort of sound like a nut. People don’t want to hear that you’ve been dead and what’s on the other side, honestly, even now. They surely do not want to hear about a past life, and especially one that is Child of God. Okay, that was sort of freaking out a lot of people in my life. 

So, I’m keeping silent. And I’m in the shadows, like, you know, the past life of the boy. I’m just hiding in the shadows having really not a great experience. But I get up the nerve and I call her. And I thought, if I can trust anybody, it’s this human. And you haven’t heard Hazel’s voice, but it is magnificent.

This this wonderful, caring, loving voice answers the phone and says, Dear, how can I help you?

And I sort of I could cry right now, but I’m going to be good.

Okay, no crying yet. I just had an emotional, spiritual, leak. I kind of had a spiritual leak all over her. Because I was crying, and I was telling her about the death experience. I’m telling her about child of God. And I’m telling her about all these experiences in between and that I’m lost and confused. And I’m on, I don’t know, a spiritual path to nowhere.

Like it’s a maze and I can’t get out. And she was very patient. She was an excellent listener. She let me just say until I ran out of words, she didn’t say a word. That alone made me feel sort of validated, like she didn’t tell me that none of it mattered or none of it was real. She didn’t say any of that.

She said, Dear, I know exactly who you need to talk to. I said, tell me. She said, Do you have a pen and paper? I said, I got it.

She said, I want you to call Kathryn Leeman. And I said, I’ll do that. That’s how I met Kathryn. I called her on the phone, and I sort of said, I am lost. I am confused. I am a spiritual wreck. I was like a spiritual wrecking ball. I don’t know what to do. And I felt like a bird with a broken wing, and I can’t fly right.

But the worst thing was it was causing me anxiety through the roof. And it was causing me to not be healthy, not only spiritually, but emotionally and in my regular life. I was worried something bad was going to happen. Some of our listeners might be able to relate to this. I was just didn’t know what to do with that. But Kathryn did.

And I called her, and she sort of picked me up and dusted me off and stood me up straight and said, you know, you can do this. We’re going to go do some spiritual therapy. And almost 40 years ago, we’re still walking on this path together. And now she’s going to help me walk on this podcast path that we’re on. And that’s it. That’s my story. That’s how I met Kathryn.

I bet you didn’t know that, Kathryn. I bet you didn’t know that backstory about Hazel. 

Kathryn: I did not. And so, this is news to me. Hazel, I did the same thing, Grace. I showed up lost and confused at a workshop, no, a talk she was giving. And I didn’t believe in past lives. And so, I mumbled to myself, I was like, I’m going to die. I mumbled to myself and was leaving the talk. And at the time she was 70 and I was 30, 31.

She beat me to the door and wanted to know who I was, where I was from.

And okay, dear, if you just would come into my office tomorrow, I will give you a free session and prove to you about past life therapy. And she did. And before I knew it, I was enrolled in transpersonal psychology, which I got my PhD in.

But Hazel, I became Hazel’s little protege. And this spiritual therapy, it worked for me tremendously. And it has definitely worked for other people. And I’m just amazed that like Grace said, 40 years later, here we still are on this spiritual journey together. 

Grace: It’s amazing that we almost had the same experience with Hazel. And yet it doesn’t surprise me either because of just the way that she was. She wanted to be an open book. And the way that her personality was, it just pulled everything out of you. You could not tell her your deepest, darkest secrets. I’m happy that you had this similar experience. 

Kathryn: Mm hmm. Yeah, and it caused me to end up working with her for the next 30 years. 

Grace: You just never know what doors are going to be opened, really.

Kathryn: Really?

Grace: And you know, when I came to your office the first time, I didn’t know what doors were going to open either. I had a couple of things that were going on that I didn’t know what doors were going to open. And I had anxiety. I had terrible, tragic anxiety. Life stopping anxiety. So let me give you an example of that anxiety.

How bad was my anxiety?

Okay, so this is not a competition listeners. But my anxiety was bad enough that I was so fearful and afraid for my children that I would get up in the morning and send them to the bus. And then I would pack myself some food and I’d go get in my car and I would drive to the school. I would see the bus arrive. They would go into their classes.

I would sit in the parking lot the entire day, shaking, crying because I was afraid something was going to happen to my children while they were in the school. Then at the end of school, they’d come out, they’d get in the bus, I’d quickly race home, park my car, run inside, put on my apron and be a mom and be fixing them some after school snacks.

My kids never knew that my anxiety was so bad. I had to be near them, or I couldn’t even breathe. My solution for that, some of our listeners may relate, was to go and get medication. Certainly, if I had medication, I would behave more like a regular person. And I started on anxiety medication that I ultimately was on for 20 years. And it caused me to be dull. I’m not like dull, dull. I’m a dull person, okay. But I meant like desensitized from all the things that were happening around me. So, when I came into your office, I really was a bird with a broken wing, literally. Like I needed to be fixed. And you were my hope to fix it. One of the first things that we worked on, fairly early at least, was Alexander.

Kathryn: Yes, I remember, actually, I’m gonna because you don’t know this, but I will share this with you now. My first impression of you was exactly that. It’s like you were broken. You were the bird with the broken wing. And of course, I always believe everything’s fixable. But it was, I remember how much I really felt your pain. And I said, if there’s one thing, I’m going to do is help her to feel normal and get off these meds. That was my goal, is to get you to a place where you would be okay and not have that anxiety, that you can seem perfectly normal. And you just happen to have this ability to remember.

Grace: I was afraid to share with you at first, because I thought I didn’t believe in past lives, necessarily, even though I had a very vivid memory of one. But I didn’t ever see that as a past life. I just thought it was a memory. Actually, having a past life regression was a new concept for me. The same as spiritual therapy.

But I came and I shared with you that what I’m seeing inside my head that I can’t get away from is the fact that I’m holding a large handle of a very sharp sword, and on the handle is a little round mirror, and when I look inside that mirror, I see the image of a man looking back at me.

And when I kind of I’m going to say kind of step towards that man, like I give it a little bit of reality and I kind of step towards it, my blood begins to run cold, my anxiety goes through the roof. And I have to try to erase that memory out of my mind so that I just don’t have it, you know, any longer in front of me.

Kathryn: Yeah, I remember you even had a panic attack right there in the chair.

Grace: Yeah, yeah, not good. Definitely not good. And I didn’t know anything about the spiritual health concept. I was having failed relationships around me. I didn’t want my marriage to fail. I didn’t want a failed marriage. I didn’t want my marriage to fail. I didn’t want to fail with my children’s relationships. I was just needed some guidance. 

Thank goodness. One of the first things that you taught me was that I had a spiritual group. So that was what was in my head. Those voices in my head were not me crazy. I thought that was me being crazy. They talk about, oh no, voices in your head.

Well, in my case, the voices in my head were real and they were not crazy. And so that was huge for me when you introduced me to my spiritual group, my spiritual home team, which is kind of what I call them. It was huge, Kathryn. 

Kathryn: I remember how big that really was.

Grace: Then the second thing that you taught me was how to plug into them to kind of get some guidance and support. So, you know what she taught me, and this is how I do it. Other people do it different ways. You folks might do it a different way. She had me to imagine a large wall socket on the wall. In this case, it’s white.

And then she would have me take the question in my hand and plug it in. And if these are yes and no questions, so easy questions.

Are you feeling well?

I plug it in. Yes or no. And I noticed over a period of time, hey, this is kind of working. And I gradually with your help, I got better and better at talking to my spiritual group and using this plug-in method, which by the way, I use every day. And I used it earlier today before we started the podcast.

Asking, is today a good day to do a podcast?

Plug it in. Answer is yes. Today’s a good day.

You know, on the morning that you suggested that we needed to do some past life therapy, it was all related to that, that swore that I kept seeing in that anxiety level. And I didn’t know at the time that that memory would intertwine through my entire life. And it would lead to a spiritual evolution that I’m still working on today. I have been so many religions all my different lives.

So, I have been a Catholic and I’ve been Muslim couple of times. And Alexander here, he followed Artemis passionately. He loved Artemis.

Buddhist, I’ve been Buddhist a couple of times. I’ve been Hindu, Namaste.

And I said, I said Muslim, right?

So, I started to follow him.

And I said, I said Muslim, right?

So Assalamu alaikum. 

So, all of these different ways, because I’ve discovered that when I had my death experience and when they were showing me my path and lives and stuff like that, God is so generous, and God is so great in his generosity. He shows you so many different ways to get to him. There’s just not one path that’s going to lead to the divine source.

He is so loving, and he is so generous, and he wants everybody to succeed. He puts a lot of different paths out there. And some of you are finding your path on your religious path. And some of you are going to find a spiritual path. And it’s equally as important. It has as much value. That was really important. For me to learn that all divine paths lead to one divine source.

And you’re probably going to hear me say this over the course of time. All divine paths lead to one divine source. Think about that just for a second. All religions lead to one divine source. One religion is not better over the other. It’s a path for you to get to where you need to go. In Alexander’s life, that was Artemis. He loved her so passionately. He was so faithful to her. He followed that religion to the letter. It meant so much to him. It was a powerful point in his life. 

But I think now it’s time to share Alexander. I’m going to share how his life unfolded. And Kathryn, I’m going to ask you to join me and kind of fill in the gaps. So, this is sort of somewhat like a reenactment, but not exactly.

But I want to share it with you the way that I remembered it. And Kathryn is, I think, going to, with your permission, folks, help me with this. Let’s see where this leads us. 

Kathryn: What our listeners need to understand is that past life therapy is different than past life regression. Not to Grace and I, we understand it’s one and the same.

But when you’re looking for someone, regression is just going back and remembering past lives. That’s not healthy. You need to be able to do a regression in a clinical setting. So, if there’s any trauma or drama to you or to that piece of your soul that experienced that lifetime, there can be a healing immediately that can be done with the therapist to set it right. So, there’s no more karma.

There’s no trauma that carries forward. Everything gets healed. And so, I do not recommend recreational past life regression whatsoever. This is very specific to Grace. Alexander is very much a part of her soul as an aspect. And they both needed healing. And that’s what we decided to do. So go ahead, Grace, and get started on how that all unfolded.

Grace: I actually really appreciate you saying that, what you just mentioned about the regression versus therapy, because it’s almost an understatement when you say that. If I had only remembered Alexander and if I had had no therapy associated with it, I don’t even know where I would be right now. Like, I probably wouldn’t be right now. I probably would have said this cannot be anymore. Because there are aspects of him that are me. I can plug into aspects of him and reactions. I’ll have a reaction. And I know that’s Alexander. And so, the therapy was as critical to me. But I tell you, spiritual things sometimes connecting the dots, it healed him as well.

Even though been dead a really long time, his soul is still out there searching for answers to whatever happened. And it healed him, and it healed my soul. And as a result of healing my soul, it by definition healed him too. And that healed me even more, because the healthier my soul got, the healthier I was. And my anxiety started to go down.

It wasn’t the first thing that hit me in the face when I opened my eyes in the morning like it used to be. And so, for this, I’m thankful and I’m very happy to share this regression as it unfolded.

Kathryn: So I just want to share that when I was working with Grace and Alexander, the experience is sometimes you can, I just want to share this so you’ll know what to expect so it won’t be so scary for you listeners, that you can have different emotions through the experience and I help you or a past life therapist would help you through navigating with those emotions and how to look at it objectively, as if you’re sitting in a movie theater watching a big screen, and you’re watching this probable self of yours out there having the experience and you can feel it.

Like sometimes when you go to a movie, you can get caught up in the movie or a television show and you cry, it makes you laugh, or it makes you cry and it’s no different. So, you’re having an internal movie that’s going on and you really need someone to guide you through that.

So like Grace, if she started to go off on a different kind of a tangent somewhere, I could gently bring her back to keep focused because oftentimes the ego wants to sidetrack you so that you don’t have a healing experience and so to keep putting you on the right track. And then I follow along with Grace or with anybody and if I’m getting the same visions that she’s getting, then I know we’re on the right track and help with Alexander and the feelings that’s coming up for Alexander and how he could understand why his life went the way that it did, and what contracts, this ties back into when we were talking when Clovistia was talking about contracts, what his contracts were, why he had to end his life that way, why did he have to go through the experiences he did because he was so upset.

So, once we guided him to see what his contracts were and reunited him with the people that meant so much to him and we did a whole nice little spiritual reunion, then he, i.e. she, that part of her was healed and now could go on and not really affect her life. She could go on and do what Grace needed to do and not let Alexander overshadow every moment because he was always there asking for help, looking for answers, trying to be able to get unstuck. And that’s what we did.

Grace: Yes, we did. Thank goodness. And I thank you again for that. I think I thank you so many hundreds of times, but really. 

Kathryn: You’re most welcome. I want to thank you so much for trusting me because what I have learned is that every experience, I go through with someone, I also learned something. I learned because this was several years ago, mind you, and I was sort of brand new at this.

But I also learned a lot going through this experience with you and Alexander, Grace. It was really a very interesting journey, and I got a lot out of it. So, thank you for trusting me and allowing me to go on this journey with you.

Grace: Well, you’re very welcome. And I cannot say enough about the importance of doing this in a clinical setting. So, thank you for sharing all of that with us. And you know what, listeners, we’re just been sitting here just chattering away, just kind of enjoying our moment. So, I’m going to have to break our episode here, and I hope that you come back so that we can finish our story.

Grace: And so, I guess for today, this is your host, Grace, signing off. 

Kathryn: And your co-host, Kathryn Leeman. And I look forward to talking with you all on the next podcast. Thank you.

Host: Grace Star
Co-host: Dr. Kathryn Leeman
www.Clovistia.com
Facebook.com/Clovistia
Instagram @Clovistia
Executive Producer: Grace Star
Producer: Charlie Garcia