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Our podcast is in numeric order, so please start at Episode #1, so you don’t miss any details or wisdom.

A shocking discovery launches Grace Star into a spiritual journey of discovery after remembering a past life at age 6.  Angels? Golden pathway to heaven? A child’s memory of Jesus of Nazareth? No Fear? 

Stop by this engaging episode and take a journey to Nazareth. 

Welcome to Episode #2 and welcome back Kathryn. 

Kathryn: Thank you so much Grace for including me in this journey. I’m really looking forward to seeing how this all unfolds and just feel very honored to be a part of your journey.

Grace: Thank you, you’re very welcome. As we discussed in Episode # 1, I’m going to be sharing my first past life memory at the age of six, which was a really young age, and how it ties in with Clovistia, and I call this episode Child of God. 

I’m not sure how many of our listeners have had a past life memory, but if you have you may connect with this episode. I’m going to sort of put one foot into the shadow of my young self at age six and one foot in the shadow of this other life so that I can share with you. This is simply a recounting of a past life as opposed to a new memory, so I think I will be fine with the emotions, but if I burst out in tears you all have to be supportive. Okay?

When I was about five or six years of age my parents had decided that we were going to bring religion into our life, and we started going to the little local church. The Sunday school was in the basement and there were three to four parent teachers that were there usually teaching little Bible stories. We had been going to the church for, I don’t know, a few Sundays and I had been learning about different things in the class, and sometimes these things reminded me of different times and different places and my mind would drift, and I didn’t know why. I was kind of a quiet kid and adults would often say that I was thoughtful. I wasn’t sure what that meant, but I liked it. 

On this particular day as the teacher was talking, she said a word that just resonated in my mind, which was Nazareth. It just echoed inside my head, and it felt so familiar, like I could almost touch it. It felt like a place that I knew, and my mind just started to drift while I was in the classroom. I blinked my eyes, and I looked around at the religious pictures and my eyes kind of scanned, and I kind of stopped at the picture of Jesus. I looked at that and I kind of tilted my head, and I thought that doesn’t fit, that doesn’t look like Jesus at all.

 I wonder why they’re teaching us this because it just didn’t feel right, and I cannot explain, it but it was a very strong feeling. I thought I have to talk to these teachers because I don’t think that they know that this is a problem. So, I decided I am going to be helpful, and I decided that I was just going to walk up to the tallest teacher, because she always seemed so nice to me, and I was going to tell her how I was feeling. 

She had red hair and as I stood at her feet, she looked like a tall redwood tree standing over me. I had to tilt my head back to see up into her face. I let her know that some of the stuff that they were saying didn’t feel right to me, and in particular, I pointed at the picture of Jesus, and I let her know that it wasn’t him, and it just didn’t feel right to me, and I thought Jesus looked different.

I expected her to appreciate this, but as she looked down at me her face began to change, and it became a very mean face, and I realized she wasn’t happy. But I was confused. She grabbed my little arm, and she started pulling me across the classroom to the other teachers. She was hurting my arm and she wouldn’t let go of it and I wiggled, and I tried to get out of it like a kid would. But I couldn’t her hand was like a vice. The teachers began talking about me as if I wasn’t there, as if I was invisible. 

They were talking about the fact that I was being very disruptive, and I was lying, and they would not allow it. Suddenly my parents came into the door, the look on their faces was not happy faces. My dad had his hands on his hips and my mother was looking at me with those eyes that you never want to see from your mother. I thought this is not going as anticipated at all. The teacher talked to my parents and as we got ready to exit the building, they let my parents know that they were welcomed back, but they should not bring me along because I was disruptive, and I was going to confuse the other children. 

As we drove home in the car and my parents yelled at me, I was looking out the window thinking to myself. I am confused and I’m not sure what to do with all this confusion. When we got home, I was put into my bedroom and I was told that I could not come out until I would be willing to take back the lie and admit that it was a lie, and sort of repent, and say I would never lie again. I realized I was exiled in my bedroom to learn a lesson. I just wasn’t sure what lesson to learn I had told the truth. 

Oh boy. I just went and laid on the bed and covered my eyes with my arms and felt very sorry for myself. As I calmed down, I began to think of the word Nazareth and slowly I was becoming aware of the word spinning in my mind. Each time I thought of the word it seemed more and more important. It was resonating in my mind Nazareth; it was calling to me. So, I just began to follow it. The word was just sort of dancing ahead of me as we went back in time, until I became aware that I was in a different time and a different place in my mind. But I wasn’t asleep. 

Somehow, I was still aware of my bedroom, but as I focused on the memory it was sort of playing in my head like it was a dream and briefly, I seemed to be able to be in two places at one time. But then it began to fade, and I was definitely in a different place.

Kathryn:  Tell me what you see. What did it look like where you were?

Grace: I can see blue sky. It is hot. 

Kathryn: Look around even more. Do you see anything that you might recognize?

Grace: I feel like I can see from a taller vantage point. 

Kathryn: Can you try to plug into this place? Do you know where you are? Does it feel familiar?

Grace: First word that comes to mind is Nazareth. I can see dusty houses, dirt roads, people wearing long robes, animals are working pulling carts or carrying supplies.

Kathryn: Okay. Now look around you. What else do you see?

Grace: Everyone is kind of in a rush on this one road in front of me, but I can smell bread on the wind. It smells so good.

Kathryn: Okay. Now I want you to take a look at your hands. What do you see?

Grace: I have hands that are darker than mine. They are a dark brown. They are very dirty, and they smell really bad. 

Kathryn: Okay, so take a nice deep breath and let’s go even further. What else are you aware of?

Grace: I am beginning to see through another person’s eyes.

I can see his thoughts a bit. He’s a boy about seven years old. My vantage point is taller because he’s taller than me by about a head and I can look down on things, differently.

Kathryn: Like what? Tell me what you see? 

Grace: You know, I just am seeing like the tops of people’s heads, and I can never see that cause I’m shorter. I’m always looking up into everybody’s faces. But now I’m kind of looking down into the street and the crowd and I can kind of understand what he’s thinking. 

Kathryn: What is that?

Grace: Two things pop up immediately. #1, in the front of his mind. He’s very hungry and thirsty. I can feel his body and he have bony ribs and hips. He’s very thin maybe starving. He is thinking of finding food, first thing on his mind, but in the back of his mind, he’s worried that someone will see him and catch him and beat him. I can see a few instances of that in his mind and they look very painful. He’s also afraid that they’ll catch him and sell him into slavery, I guess that is common here. 

He’s hiding from everyone in the shadows. He has no protector. But I realize, let me tell you what I’m really seeing, I’m realizing that I’m standing with my back against a wall in the shadows. I’m looking around and I’m beginning to feel more and more that this is Nazareth. I’m standing in Nazareth. 

It feels really familiar, and it is hot, it’s really hot. It’s windy and there’s sand flying around. I’m hungry, I’m so hungry, and I’m looking around for food. I’m aware of a wide ancient road kind of in front of me and the sounds of the streets, and the smell of horses. There are wagons rumbling by, big Roman wagons. It’s kind of busy. I don’t know if it’s a busy city, or a busy afternoon, but it’s a busy moment, but I’m just sort of mesmerized.

Kathryn: Okay, what other kind of thoughts come to mind?

Grace: Suddenly I hear a ruckus off to my right, near the back of the building I’m standing by, that is kind of on the edge of town. So, I kind of follow it to the end of the building, and as I look around the corner, there’s a big culvert that goes across to the other side. It’s kind of flat on the bottom where people and horses can walk, and then it goes up on the other side. I can see that there’s a man coming towards me, and a group of men are following him. 

As I see this man I cannot take my eyes off of him, he is mesmerizing. There’s something about him that I don’t understand as a child, but all the men are trying to keep up with him. They’re kind of talking and chattering and trotting along beside him to keep up. He seems to be going somewhere. He has a long flowing robe that’s the color of sand, that’s kind of whipping behind him. 

I peek further around the building, and I’m struck by hot wind in my face, sand is blowing into my eyes and I’m having to squint. 

But I am really feeling that this man is of great importance. I look and I see him, and the crowd is passing by down in the culvert. Everybody’s going, and as I look further down, I see there’s a big tree in the middle of the culvert. It’s a giant tree with big, outstretched arms and a lot of shade. I see people under the tree and there’s more arriving. There seems to be an excitement with the crowd and they’re all waiting for him to arrive. 

I decide I have to see more, so I leave the safety of the shadow of the building and as I do that, I realize I’m a street orphan. In my mind I’m not thinking about any parents or anything like that. There’s nobody that’s going to say don’t do that stay in safety. There’s a short alley and I dash across it, behind the shadow of another building. I sort of start making my way down towards the big tree in the shadows of all the buildings on the edge of town.

I can hear his voice and it’s resonating on the wind. It is a sound that is calling me, and it feels so inviting, and I can’t wait to get there. As I get close to it, I’m standing at the top of the culvert in the shadow and I’m kind of leaning forward because I really want to hear all of the words that he’s saying because they sound so sweet on my ears. I can just barely hear him say, “my children”, when suddenly, abruptly, I’m grabbed from behind. A mean man has a hold of me, he pushes me down and grabs my right foot. His hand feels like steel and he’s holding me, and he starts dangling me up in the air. He’s walking down the culvert towards the mesmerizing man, but the bad man is shaking me and he’s yelling that I’m a street heathen which apparently is bad. I am so afraid as he is shaking me, there is panic running through my mind. What will he do to me? I brace for impact, and I squeeze my eyes tightly expecting the worst. As he’s holding my small ankle so tight and shaking me, I realize my brain is rattling around and I’m losing the ability to think straight. 

But behind me I hear that resonating voice of the mesmerizing man. He is commanding the bad man to put me down, just put me down. He calmly and peacefully says that I am a Child of God. Child of God? I think he has me confused with some other dirty child, because I have no friends, no relatives, no parents, and no one in my life named God. I have no idea who this God person was, but if he is going to claim me as his child and if that will save me from this bad man, I am okay with that. So, I am just quietly dangling there. 

The bad man turns me towards him and he’s looking me straight in the eyes and his glare is just piercing me. I can only look back with my saddest eyes and I am just preparing for the worst. But then the resonating voice of the mesmerizing man begins again, and I am brought back to the moment. I am able to twist my body around to look at the kind mesmerizing man. 

He says, in that wonderful voice, that we are all Children of God in His eyes, and that we must love one another. That god wants all his children to live in peace and harmony. I looked at the mesmerizing man and his eyes are so loving. We locked eyes for a moment, and I could see that he cared about me and that I mattered to him. Then I looked at the bad man and his eyes were like hot iron that just tore right through me. Reluctantly, he put me on the ground, and I stood there, and I felt very tiny. I’m standing in front of everyone and I’m not in a shadow. 

The kind man is looking at me, and the bad man is staring at me, and the crowd is looking at me as if something should happen. Suddenly I panic and I started to run back up the bank of the culvert towards the top. I run as fast as my small legs can carry me, past the crowd, up the hill towards the shadows. When I get to the top of the hill I stop, and I look back. 

The kind loving man, and has his eyes are on me, he followed me during my exit up the hill. I stopped to catch my breath and our eyes meet, and he has a very strong look of concern. I just wanted to run back to him and jump in his arms for safety. I paused for just a moment because as much as I wanted to stay there, I was so afraid. I just ran into the shadows and disappeared from sight. 

Grace: This kind of faded from that day and I began to be aware that I had kind of moved forward in time, for about two weeks. Again, I’m hungry, as always, and I’m looking for scraps of food, and I’m pretty smart kid. I discovered that there are certain food places, like these street vendors in town that have good bushes near them for hiding. I realized that there are tables and some places that I can get some bits of food. I could just dash out from the bushes and if I was lucky, a piece of meat or maybe a sweet. Anything that might be left behind or thrown away or dropped on the ground. 

On this particular day I’m near a popular eating place that is located on the corner of a busy road. There’s a large table near the corner and there’s good coverage for me. So, I’m hiding there and I’m waiting for my opportunity, as two fat men come and sit at a table not far from me. Strategically I’m crouching in the bushes, and they order a lot of food as I anticipated. I’m just being as quiet as possible, crouching down, waiting for my opportunity to dash out, but they’re eating, so I have to wait for them. They’re having a conversation and I like to listen to it from time to time to hear about local news or maybe there could be a local event where I could find some food. 

The shortest of the two fat men begins to talk about the striking man that had saved me. 

The short man asked are you going to go listen to him next time? He’s going to be here. He has some important things to say. You should come, you should have come last time. Everybody liked him. 

The other fat man says I don’t know. I don’t really have time for that. Who is he anyway?

The short man says he’s a very important person. Everybody really liked him. 

The other fat man seemed to be very annoyed, and he asked who is that man anyway?

The short fat man said it was Jesus of Nazareth. You should come, you should listen. It would be good for you. 

At that time, as both the young man and myself, the young girl, I kind of realize that that’s Jesus, but I don’t really know who Jesus was exactly. I mean I had seen him on the walls of the church, and the young boy had been saved by him, but we really didn’t know anything about Jesus, one way or the other. It was just someone who had been kind to the young boy. But he was wondering, would he remember me? If I was to see this Jesus again, I wonder if he would remember me. I wonder if he would think that I was important enough to even be remembered. 

But, as I was hiding in the bushes watching the table, I realized that my favorite treat was being served. I thought about it for a minute, and I wondered if they would finish it. My mouth began to think about how much I wanted that treat, and how it would taste so good? I had to be patient. I had to wait for my opportunity. 

Soon they began stretching and yawning and patting their fat bellies. My focus shifted to the food, and I became very focused, like I was a predator ready to pounce. I would have to act quickly. My favorite treat was right there on the table within hands reach. I licked my lips, savoring how sweet it would be. I just needed to be a little more patient. I leaned forward to prepare my legs and feet for action. I got my muscles ready. 

But in doing that I fell out of the safety of the bushes, and out of the shadows. As I fell forward I landed on the ground near the table, to my left the shopkeeper saw me right away, and he had a stick! He pointed it at me and he was yelling at me. I thought oh no! I’m going to get hit.

Quickly I gathered myself up and crouched thinking of an exit. I realized I had to make a split second decision or I would get hit by this man. It kind of ran through my mind that I had been hit before and I had bruises on my back. As my two selves the memory of pain kind of merged and it would hurt a lot. I could feel the pain. As my little girl self and I didn’t want anyone to hit him again. My mind was racing, and it was a frightening memory. In that split second, I decided to jump out of the way and move to the left. I would have to sacrifice my treat and any chance of food. The street beside me was wide and very busy, and lots of traffic on foot and wagons. 

But the shopkeeper was quickly approaching, and I could see the stick pointing straight at me. My eye scanned across the busy road, and I picked a location that I could land that had good coverage and safety. I could see the shopkeeper and I looked at the shopkeeper’s angry eyes. The stick was right by my face! 

I took a giant leap forward and squinted my eyes as I jumped into the air. As I was flying, I immediately realized my mistake. The Roman driving the big wagon, loaded with goods, never saw me. At that moment, as my little girl self, I was alarmed as I watched him jump into oncoming traffic. His body had launched between the horse section, behind the horse, but in front of the wagon in that space that’s there. He had darted right into that little gap straight into the path of a giant Roman wheel, and the wheel was right there. 

It was big, it had a metal edge, and it was moving fast straight at me. The first wheel was smaller and when it hit me, it felt like a squish. But when the second wheel hit me, it was unforgivable, and I felt the pain of my body getting crushed and smashed as my body made its way under the wagon, and my bones broke and cracked, and my body popped out the back end of the wagon. 

I became aware that I was drifting away from that scene up into the air by about maybe about 10 feet. As I looked down, I saw my crushed and bleeding body laying in the road. I looked around and none of the people seemed to notice. The wagon driver never knew he hit me, not even a bump. He didn’t notice or stop. Nobody seemed to notice on the road. 

Would anybody notice or is something else going to happen to my poor body? 

Would anybody care at all? Would I just be left lying in the road?

 But in between the buildings, a man with big heavy hands came walking out and he put his hands on his hips, as he looked at my body. He walked out and reached down and grabbed my broken leg with one big hand. He dragged my body over and kind of threw it in a heap on the side of the road. 

I realized my funeral was over. No moment of silence. No moment of sadness. No kind words. Just a clap of his big dusty hands, to kind of get rid of any trace of me, that would have been left there. Everybody else continued on the busy road, oblivious to my departure from this world.

I found myself drifting even further up above the scene below and as I looked to my right. There was a loving smiling woman drifting with me. I realized that she looked like the angels in the pictures at the little church. She felt very loving and inviting and she reached out her arms to me. I went to her, and she was holding me so tight, and I was holding her so tight, and we were squeezing so much that I thought we would pop. I couldn’t get enough. She could not have loved me enough in that moment and I felt so warm and so safe. Safety! I felt safe! I could not say the word enough in my head and I felt happy. 

We continued to drift, and we drifted up into a loving golden light, and I realized that I was going home. The pain of this life was over, and it was behind me, and it faded. 

Suddenly I was back in my bedroom. Very aware of everything that had just happened. I rubbed my eyes and cried. I cried for him and what I had seen. He was the victim, and I was a witness to his tragic death. I felt very sorry for him. But I also felt really sorry for myself. 

A part of me had experienced his pain, and as a child, I didn’t know how to separate that. I didn’t even know what to do. I thought it was a memory of me at a time that I just hadn’t remembered yet, imagining all of this experience. But as I was crying my mother heard me and she thought that I was repenting. So, she came into my exile room to rescue me. 

Thank goodness for mothers! I couldn’t admit to her that I lied, because I hadn’t. I just remembered something that was in the past. So, many questions and so few answers.

So, I cried, and I cried. I didn’t know that this memory of Nazareth was inside of me or how to control it from leaking out little bits at a time, especially at Sunday school. The picture of Jesus, that you are all pretty familiar with, having light skin with a beard and long hair, that’s actually the picture that was at the little church. But that’s not what he looks like and at that time I had to say something. But, maybe, I should not have said anything. I was very confused. 

But at that exact moment my mom was rescuing me, and I knew I needed to get out of the room, because I was really thirsty and hungry. But my thoughts drifted to him, and food meant something completely different to me now, than it did previously. 

I realized that as a kid I was changed and when I thought about his life, I don’t know what I even wanted to refer to him as because he didn’t ever show me a name. I didn’t know what to call him, but I knew that he was connected with me and I knew that I was different. I saw things differently from that moment: 

·        Risk 

·        How people are treated 

·        The difference between boys and girls, and how they’re treated 

·        The colors of skin, and how they’re treated 

·        I wanted people, especially children of color, to be treated differently

·        I wanted kids to have a better life and to be fed

I don’t know, I was a jumble of emotions, and it was really difficult. 

Kathryn: Wow Grace, that was such a huge experience for such a small child to have, and to have it spontaneously like that. How did you find that this affected you later in life? You were so young to be able to have to go through something like that and no one to process it with. So, how did you integrate it or what did you do with it?

Grace: I was very confused, needless to say.

 But probably the one thing that really struck me the most was that I believed in Angels, starting from that moment. I saw a glimpse of heaven. My world was forever changed, because I no longer feared death. I knew that there is another side, an afterlife. I felt a part of something really big, and I felt really connected to that love on the other side.

Kathryn: Have you been able to keep that love throughout your adult life that connection to spirit?

Grace: I have been able to keep that connection and as an adult, I do have that no fear, that I had as a child. 

I would just have to ask our listeners, just for one moment, if you can get your eyes and ears around this entire idea, that what if at this exact moment, I could show you absolute proof that there was another side, I’m not going to call it heaven. I’m not going to call it anything. 

I’m just going to show you absolute proof that there is an afterlife, and I’m going to give that to you as a gift, how would that change your life as listeners?

To be completely changed like that?

It was a challenge as a kid, needless to say. But I also became a child that lived in the shadows because that fear, that trauma that I experienced, was there. I became more introverted, and I began to ask more questions. I began to be more of a seeker. But I became definitely more in the shadows, and wanting to not step forward, but to step back and just be much more thoughtful. 

Kathryn: So, how would you say that this experience impacted you for the rest of your life? What would you say that you’re looking for? You say that you have become a very strong spiritual seeker, and in that seeking, how did your life unfold from that point on?

Grace: It is a journey. This experience as a child, and my other experience that will be in Episode #3, associated with my death experience, cleared the path for me for Clovistia to enter my life. Because without these two experiences I would not have been open to her even being in my life. It would have been scary. 

Kathryn: Yes, indeed. I bet it would have been. So, this was all your let’s say “initiation into your life, in the here and now, spiritually speaking, it was quite a crash course. 

So I really look forward to hearing and being with you on the next leg of this journey. I believe that the listeners out there can relate. I know some people may have probably had some spontaneous recall, maybe not in as much detail as you had, but it could have come in a more fragmented way, or an understanding they needed to seek more, or perhaps they feel sort of haunted in their memories. I wonder why things are like the way they are and why is it that the same thing keeps repeating itself and keeps coming up? What needs to be explored? And yet they have no way of exploring it. 

Grace: I think you’re right; I think some of our listeners may have had similar experiences, spiritual experiences, past life experiences, near death, and some of what we’re going to talk about will resonate with them. So, I would just like to put out there if you’ve had this type of experience, where you start remembering other times and places, and if you don’t have a spiritual friend that maybe can help you, start by trying your best not to edit the incoming information. Just let it come in as pure as it can. You can always examine it later. 

You don’t need to edit it at that exact moment, but just let it come in there and see where it takes you. Hopefully you’ll find a spiritual friend someone that you can talk to about your spiritual experiences and maybe you’ll be as blessed as I, and you’ll find your Dr. Kathryn Leeman, who can come in and help you sort out the biggest bits and get you put into a place that makes a bit more sense to you. As she did on my journey with Clovistia.

Kathryn: Thank you, I’d be happy to do that to help anyone that is also seeking, because it’s my life’s mission to help people find all of these pieces of their souls that are fragmented out there, that need to be healed and come together and have a lot more wholesome fulfilling life, just as you have done.

Grace: I am definitely going to need your help going through all the aspects of my own life, as well as Clovistia, and as we wander around the cosmos. 

Kathryn: Thank you very much Grace for having me as a part of the show.

Grace: You are very welcome and thank you for being here. I hope that our listeners have enjoyed my memory and if you have your own memories, and you don’t have a spiritual friend, we are here to be your shoulder, you can always send email to Grace/Clovistia or Kathryn on social media. You are not alone; we are here for you. Because certainly if you need to talk about it, you’ll be healthier and happier on your journey once you have a spiritual friend.

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Host: Grace Star
Co-host: Dr. Kathryn Leeman
Instagram @Clovistia
Executive Producer: Grace Star
Producer: Charlie Garcia