Our podcast is in numeric order, so please start at Episode #1, so you don’t miss any details or wisdom.
A casual afternoon horseback ride leads to an unexpected spiritual journey to the afterlife for Grace Star. Grace shares her memory of a near death experience to the beginning of time, and how it has impacted her current life.
Grace: Hello, listeners. Welcome back to Episode #3. How are you, Kathryn?
Kathryn: Hi there, Grace. I’m doing great today. How about yourself?
Grace: I’m doing very well as well.
Kathryn: You know, we received an interesting and relevant email question from our last episode, too. The question is, how did it feel to be a boy when you were actually a young girl remembering all of this?
Grace: You know, that’s a really good and kind of complex question. Strangely, he felt a part of me. He didn’t feel foreign. He felt like a very loving family member, or at least that was my perception. I’m not sure I can explain it, but you listeners out there who have had a past life memory with another gender or maybe just a memory in general, it doesn’t necessarily feel weird that your gender is different.
In a sense, it is more like retrieving a piece of your soul. And I felt more whole spiritually after the memory.
Kathryn: How old were you when you realized that this was an actual past life you had had?
Grace: You know, it took a long time. I was about 25, I think, when I realized that that experience was actually a past life, and it took me having another past life memory to be able to see it differently by comparison. And I know that sounds weird. But you know, past lives are kind of an odd thing because some people have them and some people don’t.
And you don’t get to determine what life you go to, and you don’t get to determine when you go into it or when you go out of it. There is a lot of randomness that comes into play. In most cases, you see a little snip of time, and that is probably meaningful to your individual spirit.
But sometimes it just takes a while to kind of figure out or understand why you needed to be there at all. Like, why remember past lives, you know, period?
For those of you that don’t remember them, maybe you’re the ones that are blessed. Because you know, as my little girl self, I fairly quickly understood why I needed to remember Jesus, because it was very powerful. And the depth of love that Jesus radiated to all those around him is not like anything that I have experienced in my other memories. So, this was the plus side of the memory.
But the negative side, I struggled for a long time, including now, actually, processing the actual trauma of being a witness to his tragic death. The little girl had instantly bonded with the little boy self. From the moment she was aware of him, she was able to understand that she loved him and immediately wanted to protect him, rescue him, certainly feed him. There was quickly a strong bond. So why did she need to see that tragic end?
There was an aspect that was absolutely so personal to her. And then it was just like taken away in a flash. So, I would say that these things came through more than the question of rather there were two genders at play. Yet there are aspects of him that I see in myself.
Kathryn: Well, can you give us an example?
Grace: I can. I have had a lifetime of dealing with eating disorders. I needed some spiritual therapy to learn how to eat and take proper care of myself, which is a point that struck me when I saw that he was dying of starvation. His entire waking existence revolved around seeking and finding food. He carried this little emergency kit with him. It was like a little bag. It had little bits of food and little pieces of grain, little pieces of grass. that I was aware that he had on his person so that he could feed himself when he was in kind of crisis mode. Dealing with absolute hunger and craving is a different level of patience and acceptance that I have to, and I still have to learn to deal with.
It’s something that maybe I don’t have to go through as much because he did, and I can kind of tap into that awareness. So maybe that won’t be repeated on my own life.
Kathryn: You know, you talking about that reminds me of the past life that I had one also as an orphan child hungry, but also as a bag lady on the streets of England feeding the pigeons and always looking for where my next meal was going to come from. And that makes so much sense. Because now I understand where all my eating issues come from and the eating disorders I’ve had in this life. It all comes from still having aspects of those memories and the fear of starving to death, you know, in our own psyche.
Grace: That’s interesting that you had that experience, so similar to mine. I have to be curious if there’s any listeners out there that may be connected with that a little bit too.
You know, if there are, there may be some of the people listening could have also struggling with eating disorders. So maybe this is something they could look into.
I’m sure that their doctor’s going to think they’re a little strange when they come into the office and say, I might’ve had a past life and I might have be overeating as a result of that connection, but you shouldn’t laugh because I tell you the more I have processed this little life of starvation, the better I have been as a soul.
Grace: And doing soul therapy is such a, you know, Kathryn, you have helped me so much.
Kathryn: Oh, thank you. And it comes from having had my own experiences. I could so relate to what you were going through. So, what do you think? Are we ready to go on to Episode #3?
Grace: I think we’re ready to go to Episode #3. My near-death experience when I was 17, when I killed myself. All right. This should be interesting. I have to simmer down here a little bit. Okay. So as you know, my first brush with the afterlife in Episode #2 was as a really young person, so when this experience happened to me, I was a little bit older than I was, but when this experience happened to me and I found myself on the other side, it wasn’t as scary as probably it would have been to somebody else because I sort of had some background there, but this was a very different experience that was different than simply drifting into the golden light as I did at the end of the other life.
Kathryn: Would you care to share how it was different from your other life in episode two?
Grace: It was like night and day. In our last episode, I was a spectator, and I was able to see him drifting up towards the afterlife into the golden light with the Angel, but there came a point that he disconnected from me. So, I did not really get to see the other side exactly. I could feel the love and the connection and the welcoming vibration and frequency that was kind of paving the way for him to leave this earth, but this was very different. I could feel the loving connection definitely with both experiences.
However, as you will soon hear, this was an entirely different experience. So here we go.
Grace’s memory: It all started on a boring school afternoon and the light was just starting to drift towards evening and there was enough time for me to grab a quick ride on my horse. I had a competitive horse, and I was always trying to keep her tuned up for the different competitions.
I was young and I thought myself a horse trainer. On this particular day, I was having some problems with her giving her head to me. Training her had always been so easy, but today she just didn’t want to yield. I thought a moment and I decided to grab a different set of reins, something with a different style, and perhaps I could get her head in a better position to yield.
I sat firmly in the saddle and gave a good pull on the rain, putting my heel into her side, anticipating her to do a certain thing. But momentarily she just hesitated like she was processing what I was asking her to do. And then suddenly in the next moment, she launched straight up in the air. Her head was whipping around side to side.
I could feel her beginning to walk backwards and in a split second, I realized that I had two choices. I could jump clear of her and try to roll out of her way in the hopes that she would catch herself and not step on me. Or I could stay with her. I thought she would take care of herself. And with that idea, in that moment, I decided I’m staying with her, and she’ll take care of both of us. She was still walking backwards, and it was like slow motion, and I could feel her starting to go over. And it just seemed like time was stretching out and slowing down and she kept going up and up and then her legs no longer were touching the ground. And I was feeling us both going over backwards, and I was holding on to her as she was going backwards. And I was holding on to her as tight as I could, and we are both just falling. I could feel the ground coming up fast on my back and I was closing my eyes holding on and then, bang, blackness, nothing, quiet.
But then color, bright, vivid color.
Kind of like when you’re swimming underneath the water in your swimming pool, and everything is kind of fuzzy and obscured and the color’s kind of not correct and then you explode to the surface and your senses are overcome with bright colors and air and blue sky that are so much different compared to underwater. It was like that. It was shockingly vibrant. The color was almost alive, and it attacked my senses.
I became aware that I was standing on a great high hill with a rolling edge. The grass was a brilliant green. It was kind of undulating in the breeze, kind of like it was dancing. And I became aware of the smell of a sweet, soft breeze.
That was kind of just going past my cheeks and I became aware that the breeze was picking up into more of a wind and my hair was starting to whip around my face. I stopped and looked around and the mountain seemed like it was getting higher. I held my arms out to the side and, and it felt like I could fly. And the breeze started to just get stronger and stronger.
My arms were still outstretched. My hair was whipping all around. I was really enjoying that experience, but gradually I became aware of someone to my right. He was a being, possibly an angel. Male with long white robes. His deep voice says you cannot stay here. You must return. I know our listeners are going to say they always say that and they kind of always do, well, most of the time anyway.
I looked around, and the hill had become a great place to be. It had grown all the way up and there were white pillowy clouds that were floating by, and it was magnificent. The divine radiance of love was permeating everything. Everything I looked at radiated love and I felt a vast sense of belonging and wonder that was sweeping over me. I was just so excited to see the everything.
Grace: Please let me stay. I pleaded. He shook his head.
Angel: It’s not your time. You have much to do. You are needed elsewhere.
Grace: I decided I wanted to ask one question. So, I said to him, can I ask one question?
Angel: He said you may.
Grace: Why life? I needed to know. It seemed like a simple question, but it was far from it. He raised his right hand to the point of his shoulder and pow, we were moving through time like a celestial rocket. I was flying with outstretched arms and time was rushing past my face. I closed my eyes.
We were going so fast, and the feeling of love enveloped me the further back we got, deeper and deeper back in time. After a few moments, I became aware that we weren’t moving anymore, and we stopped.
It was the moment of the beginning of all time.
I became aware that there was a great deal of excitement and a flurry of activity in the air and frequency and electricity, and I was kind of swept into a vortex of all this excitement that was going on. I became aware that all souls were being created at that exact moment. Thousands, millions of souls were being created.
Millions, millions of beings like myself were drifting down to this planet. I knew that I was part of something beyond my ability to be aware and my mind felt incredibly expanded. I could only know that we were all a part of something really big. I looked above me and immediately I recognized God. The profoundness of the moment.
God was shedding part of his ethereal body into souls, and they were being rained down on the planet Earth. We were in fact a piece of God himself, a living throbbing gelatinous like ball of unconditional love and energy beyond my words even today. As we drifted further away from God, we became aware that we were individuals, of our autonomy. I screamed back loudly, stop! Please let go of me. I wanted to get back to God. I had no interest in this planet Earth and I just wanted to go back to God and be part of that oneness again. I didn’t want to leave the safety of his love and frequency. I just kept saying please keep all the souls together. I was yelling, I want to go back. This is where I belong.
But we all continued to fall. I was falling backwards so I was looking up into the frequency of God himself. He was so selfless and so peaceful and so loving. He chose to create each of us in his image of love. So vast was the unconditional love. It hurt to think of leaving. We didn’t have bodies yet. None of us did. We were just little simple balls of divine ethereal energy.
There was joy, laughter and jubilation as all the souls fell down onto Earth and as we became able to be physical. We didn’t have the bodies yet, but we were just darting around back and forth and experiencing our independence and our little bit of autonomy. We were just connected in this ethereal web of universal consciousness that permeates the other side, binding everything together, everyone, everything.
It’s all part of this web of universal consciousness. God created that too. God had made a decision to shed pieces of himself into souls. This would allow him to understand everything that is, everything that was, everything that will be, in absolute awareness between all places, genders, colors, ages, times. It’s kind of a magnificent plan. At any given moment he knows all and controls all.
Nothing would happen on Earth without God being aware of it and sanctioning it. As a newly shed soul, it was a very spectacular and spiritual time. The joy and excitement of being part of something bigger than us was beyond words. I was smiling endlessly. I was so happy to be in this place and to be having this experience. I didn’t want it to end.
There were millions of souls as far as my awareness could see.
And as they surrounded me and we floated down, we finally got onto this planet and we were sort of waiting in anticipation of what is next, what does God have for us next?
Suddenly the Archangel Michael appeared and pointed to a vast sea of choices. They were all different colors and sizes undulating in the beautiful light as far as I could see or be aware. We were all so excited with joy. One by one each soul was walking into the vastness of choice, and they were getting into the vastness of choice, and they were given a coat of awareness.
How profound is that?
A coat of awareness to wear that would connect us with God. He would be absolutely aware of everything, and this coat of awareness would resonate through all of our lives as a focal point that gave God the ability to know everything that was simultaneously happening to each of us on a physical, spiritual, experiential kind of vantage point. The connection with God cannot be stated enough how powerful it is.
Nothing happens on this planet that is not sanctioned by God. The pureness is just palpable. God had rained us all down, but he still had a string running back to his being, a cord of life of sorts. He knows everything that you think, feel, express, create, your wants and desires, your fears and hatred, your lies, your physical, emotional, spiritual, joy and pain. That tiny thread is with you always.
He knows you cannot hide or lie. It is not possible. After choosing a coat of awareness, God directs you to do the work that he needs from you. You think you’re here for you, but I can tell you you’re not. You’re here for him and we all are. You are absolutely unique in this universe. In eternity there is only you. You will experience exactly what he needs through you.
This coat of awareness is your vehicle that will entwine itself through all of your lives. You have absolutely no idea how much you mean to God. But I was also aware that somehow all time was happening at once. I know that sounds crazy, but it is. And the perfection of this concept was just dancing through my mind because it was just going around and around inside my head.
And it was part of the makeup of the other side. I was eagerly waiting for my turn to arrive so that I could go and learn what my coat of awareness would be. I was ready. I’m a soldier. I’m ready to go out there and I could hardly contain myself. Finally, it was my turn to walk into the sea of choices to discover my mission.
It felt much like wading through invisible water. It was warm. It was inviting. I looked around waiting for a sign to know which coat would be mine. They all looked amazing and inviting. But gradually I saw a beautiful blue coat that was spectacular. And all the other coats faded away compared to this one. It was absolutely dazzling in its beauty. It felt multi-dimensional. It felt like it just wanted to be part of me. It was beyond words really. All the other coats didn’t matter to me anymore. I marveled at the beauty of the coat that would be mine and as I put it on, I have to admit I strutted around looking at how great that I looked, admiring my magnificence, how good it looked on me, how good it felt to be on me.
I was overcome with the excitement and joy of going forward to do God’s work. This coat opened my awareness to the extreme and deep connection that we have with the divine universe and universal consciousness, how it’s all intertwined like a giant web, and how it’s all, every little piece and tiny bit is connected with God. I was absolutely willing to go forward to be his hands, no doubt.
I was acutely aware that God was not only in me but at my core. He is actually me. Without him at my center, there was no me and a keen awareness that God was part of everyone. This moment and state of being was very, very vivid, very multi-dimensional, love that I cannot even express. You could touch and taste and feel the frequency on the other side in the afterlife.
All the souls were aware that it was our jobs to experience the physical plane so that God would know everything about everything, about every soul, about anything that has frequency, anything that’s incarnated, including animals, insects, sea life, living creatures, botanical things, planets, galaxies, you name it in your brain, even rocks, all contain a piece of God that feels and understands our emotions and the aspects of being human.
This was absolutely the most amazing awareness I could possibly ever have as a soul having a human experience. I was an ethereal mist connected with God and I was waiting for my next assignment. Inside every soul, we are all of these things and all of this. We are all finally tuned with God, but as humans, we experience God’s veil, which prevents us from having this awareness. Honestly, if you knew what I saw, if you knew all of this, would you really stay here, or would you just leave? Because you would want to go back. I wanted to go back, but it would pollute God’s ability to challenge us if there was not a veil to protect us. It is this reason why suicide is considered so bad in all religions, because God has a plan. I was basking in this awareness and waiting to be told what the awareness of my coat would mean, the coat that I was wearing.
What did it all mean?
Suddenly, an angel standing to my left instructed me to turn so that I could see the lives that were ahead of me, that were waiting for me to go do God’s work.
Kathryn: Were you able to see any of these lives? And if so, what did they look like?
Grace: You know, I cannot say that I saw the lives. I could not exactly make out the lives, but I could feel the emotions. And I was overwhelmed by the feelings of tragedy and pain that was down the road. My lives were filled with pain and suffering and poverty and death and dying. And at that moment, I saw myself as a victim. I really didn’t wait long enough to see any of the positive lives. As soon as I saw something bad, I just branded myself a victim. And then I was falling and tumbling and then a hard bang and then lots of pain because I was back in my body. My experience was over. The door had closed. I could not breathe. I could not move. I was lying in the dirt. I couldn’t think beyond the pain.
Oh, I knew I was alive. I had compression fractures in my back, and I needed medical care. And here I was lying in a horse arena with nobody around. I realized my glimpse of God and the beginning of time on this planet had ended in a snap. On the other side, everything was so perfect, and the perfection is so profound that it is actually palpable. And it’s filled in divine love and beauty.
Kathryn: What a dichotomy. How did this affect you?
Grace: Absolutely. I was definitely having a division of consciousness. I wanted to go back to the afterlife, but I was stuck in the present and I wanted to scream, but it hurt too badly. I found myself just saying, why was I back in my body? Why did I have to come back? Why couldn’t have I stayed where I was at?
But as I became more aware and I was once again human with the physical limitations of this body, which by the way are vast, I realized that the visit on the other side was gradually fading away. And my memory was not as good and the shroud or veil that’s over each of us to keep us from seeing the other side was closing in on me. And everything that I had learned on the other side did not fit in my brain anymore. On the other side, it was so vast. Everything that I knew that was and is and will be and all of the other details from the other side didn’t fit in my human brain anymore.
And although I’m recounting it to you right now, this maybe is 25% of what I actually saw on the other side, but it just doesn’t fit in my head anymore. And it just felt like the memory was just past my fingertips and I was in mourning. I was in mourning because I missed the afterlife. I missed God and I wanted to go back. I’m a kid and it caused me to be very angry that I had in a sense been dumped back in this body and denied my spot in the afterlife.
Plus, I was prevented from knowing the meaning of the coat of awareness.
And how was I supposed to fulfill God’s plan for me without any of these answers?
I had no answers, but plenty of anger and I was so angry that I didn’t even know what to do. I had no roadmap, no guide, no adult in my life, no spiritual friend, no Dr. Kathryn Leeman yet, no one to show me the way. And the pain was taking over my mind and my choices. The adults around me had no idea what had just happened. The rescuers that came to rescue me out of the arena pick me up to tried to decide if I need to go to the doctor or anything.
Of course, my dumb self who is injured and who has just had this experience told everybody, I’m fine. There’s nothing wrong with me. So, the adults didn’t know. They thought, thank goodness, nothing bad happened. And they simply took me home.
Kathryn: How long were you gone do you think? Was it for a moment? Was it for a day? How long were you on the other side?
Grace: I still ask myself that question. I don’t know. All I know as me as myself, I have no memory for two days. And since all time was happening at the same time on the other side, which seems incredible and impossible and strange all at the same time, but it was absolutely real on the other side. It was my experience as best as I can describe it.
I only knew that I wasn’t in heaven or the afterlife. And that is all I cared about because I wanted to go back. I didn’t really care about this body at that moment. And to be honest, I have spent the remainder of my life trying to understand what really happened on the other side in those fleeting moments. It felt like I was there for a year, really.
Kathryn: Let me ask you a question, Grace, here. How long did it take you to realize you actually had compression fractures in your back?
Grace: Oh, that’s another crazy story. I was an adult. I was probably 35 years old, and I needed to have x-rays. And when they took x-rays of my back, the technician, came out and said, oh my gosh, this must have really hurt. And I looked at him and I was getting an x-ray, a chest x-ray for travel. And I said, I didn’t feel any pain. And he said, you have compression fractures of T7, 8 and 9. And he pulled my gown down a little bit and he said, there is a mar on your back, like a scar, like a scurf, red thing. It’s about three or four inches in length of when I had actually had this experience, but nobody had ever noticed it. So, I went unnoticed. I was hurt. Imagine this
I have a broken back, but I had already told everybody I was fine. So, I didn’t want to say anything. They might take my horse away. Something else bad could happen. So, I just was silent and stayed home for the next few weeks until I could move more, not aware that I shouldn’t have been riding a competitive horse.
I tell you; God is great, and things are actually perfect because my back withstood the torment, I put it through, not knowing I should have stayed in bed.
Kathryn: So then how did you spend the remainder of your life trying to understand what happened?
Grace: Well, after that life goes on and I had to forget. I had to just walk away from the memories of the afterlife back to my human life. I had to reconnect and certainly I had no ability to go back. I was aware of that. You know, I didn’t go anywhere in my sleep. I was waiting for something to happen, and it seemed like this life in a human body seemed to be a pretty permanent kind of situation. So, I just probed it in my mind and more or less existed through my life.
But I will add that sometimes I feel like I have this invisible sign over my head that only people on the other side can see and they’ll just talk to me about their near-death experience just out of the blue. And I always try to be patient to listen to their story, which is highly personal to them. And I would never want to compare my experience with theirs. The veil was pulled back for both of us. They got a glimpse. I got a glimpse. They were different glimpses, but it’s just the way it is, and it is not a competition.
It’s my experience that the afterlife is a very personal experience with a great many factors that can affect the experience. There is no cookie cutter experience. And if you’re expecting it to happen a certain way, I can probably tell you it’s not going to happen that way. It falls outside the parameters of what you’re anticipating and maybe what is even valid when you’re having a near death experience. You will see the profoundness and folks that I have met that have been on the other side connect with me on a different level. It’s like we understand each other differently. Just the awareness alone gives me a massive sense of belonging and accomplishment. Because for me, it was that experience, that near death experience, the going back to God in the beginning, that allowed me to know and recognize God from that moment.
And when he came to talk to me about Clovistia, it was a homecoming for my soul, like a consciousness jigsaw puzzle all put back together again. I was happy to do this work for Clovistia. Channeling Clovistia is my life’s work. It is the most important spiritual thing in my life. I will do her work and God’s work until I no longer breathe. And if I am blessed enough to help others and help this, then I will have accomplished my job.
Now you know about me and the pieces that came together in order for me to begin channeling Clovistia and to do her work.
Kathryn: That’s a lot, Grace. That’s quite a lot. That’s quite an experience that you have shared yet again. So where are you going to take us in the next episode?
Grace: Well, I think it’s time that we just jump right into Clovistia, it’s time for her to have the center stage now that you know about me. And there are things that are of extreme importance to her for her work. And she’s going to start channeling some of that information for everyone in Episode #4, Sacred Spiritual Contracts.